Re: Programming beginners' documentation

["Jim White" <mjwhite948@...>]

Thank you for the advice. As I stated i was patient for the first month of not being able to start Lua. (the box of crayons) When I took a second look at the situation I felt that Python might be a better fit as it is suppose to be a bit more user friendly. I have heard good things about both and made the mistake of trying Lua when I was no where near to the level it requires.( Rule of thumb: if you can't get it started it may be over your head.) I still read each and every email I get from my registration. I know it is not Python but I am sure that it will come in handy. I have not really given up on Lua. I just put it on the back burner until I get to a point where my attempts will rewarded. My second mistake in this whole thing was posting this thread. I have to admit I am surprised at the level of knowledge each response has had. Most where way over my head. Not in a bad way, just way over my head. This shows me that there must be a lot of good in this when a person has attained a level of knowledge well beyond mine. I expected more people in the same skill level as my self. with all this in mind, I have gone with Python. I will revisit Lua from time to time to see if I can make any sense of it. Some day I will. Until then thank you all fort he advice.

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:35 PM, KHMan <keinhong@gmail.com> wrote:

Jim White wrote:
> Wow. I guess I see your point. I feel like I am trying to become an
> artist but had trouble opening the box of crayons.

Stefan's point of "the ability to solve problems" is key. I know
of no short cuts in the process of becoming an experienced
developer. Experienced developers have expended enormous amounts
of time and effort over the years, and sometimes have difficulty
catering to less experienced developers because of the many things
taken for granted. Programming basics can be taught. However,
great skills cannot be taught in a class; it entails a significant
amount of time and effort invested.

But remember, part this learning involves making mistakes or bad
decisions and learning from them. As we become more skilled in
problem solving, we reduce the errors and mistakes and maximize
productivity or quality of code. Unfortunately, this does not
happen overnight, so you'll need a certain amount of patience.
There is a skill to making mistakes too. There has to be progress
-- failure is a kind of progress too, because then we can change
our methods or plans to suit the situation. If your mistake-making
isn't "productive", it's time to reevaluate your approach to
solving problems.

ESR's "How to become a Hacker" is useful advice and distills most
of what we are trying to explain to you. Hackers have internalized
problem-solving skills that it becomes like a second nature. Also,
at some point, everyone on the list has started from zero before.
We have all written god-awful ugly code and stupendously dumb bugs
before. We might cringe at early code we published publicly. So,
approach the list community in the right way, and many will go the
extra mile to help you. This goes for vibrant developer
communities anywhere.

If you have started on Python and has made progress, please go
ahead with learning it. Once you have honed your problem-solving
skills (which is much more than programming -- it is also about
things like getting and using programs in source code form,
reading specifications or reference texts, troubleshooting, asking
questions productively, etc.) then you can move on to learn or
study other languages. Lua is just one of many languages that a
good developer should get acquainted with, and it takes time and
effort to become skilled at wielding such tools.

Whatever your choice is, I for one hope you will revisit Lua in
the future. In an age of instant gratification, let us remember
that studying and acquiring skills takes time and effort. Pace
yourself, good luck and happy coding. :-)

> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Stefan Sandberg

> <keffo.sandberg@gmail.com <mailto:keffo.sandberg@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I agree.. From reading this thread (tedious as it was, but I'm in a
>     hotel, so what else am I supposed to do),  my only advice to the
>     initial poster is to brace yourself, because programming isn't
>     really related to any one specific
>     language, it's an artform, and at the core of that artform is the
>     ability to solve problems above all else, and to dig up the needed
>     information.

> [snip snip]

--
Cheers,
Kein-Hong Man (esq.)
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia