On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Stefan Sandberg <
keffo.sandberg@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree.. From reading this thread (tedious as it was, but I'm in a hotel, so what else am I supposed to do), my only advice to the initial poster is to brace yourself, because programming isn't really related to any one specific
language, it's an artform, and at the core of that artform is the ability to solve problems above all else, and to dig up the needed information.
As for starting programming for the very first time, I don't really have any advice, as I sortof brute-forced myself through it at as a junior on my c64.
I had no major issues learning lua, or any other language I've used, and I'm confident that I could pick up just about any language and not have too many problems with it, but I can't say I might enjoy it.
On a personal level I tend to focus on the languages that more closely correlate to the way I'd like my art'n'logic expressed, so the way I see it, you just happened to reach for a pencil when you should
have reached for a paint roller..
I'm also quite sure that if you keep learning programming (and the fundamentals of development) and try lua again in 6 months or so, I'm pretty positive you'll end up with
one of the greatest and best sensations life has to offer, which would be the combination of a palm slapping your forehead and what Samuel L Jackson referred to as 'a moment of clarity'....
Gerhard Sittig wrote:
[ quick summary since the message got a little longer:
somewhat on topic: do we want a "thinkCS" book for Lua? (see below) ]
On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 07:51 -0400, Jim White wrote:
As an update I have so far completed the first half of the tutorial in
python and am quite pleased with this language.
This is getting off topic for the Lua list, but since you started
learning how to program with the Python language (and have a running
interpreter at hand), you might want to search for the "How to think
like a Computer Scientist" book, for which a Python edition is available
(search for "thinkCSpy"). This is an introduction to programming which
assumes absolutely _no_ previous knowledge, yet quickly reaches an
advanced level including object orientation and stuff. In theory the
reader should not exactly learn Python with this book, but the concept
of programming -- where it's "more of a coincidence" that this happened
with Python, yet can be applied to other languages as well.
Since you suffered yourself from the situation where you don't know how
to write software or how to install software which is not prepackaged
for your system, you might help other "students" later by providing them
with a working interpreter as well as the "thinkCSpy" book to get them
started.
And still there's not necessarily a lockin into Python involved for you.
You are completely free to learn programming, look into a few languages,
and pick the one you like most. You can reconsider that choice at any
time, or mix several languages to make use of their best features where
you see fit. But you certainly will notice that yourself ...
Oh, and one more important thing: Since experts apparently don't see
the problem you had, but you do _and_ know how to overcome the obstacle
you faced, contributing to some kind of FAQ or doc or improvement in the
process in a constructive way gains more for the next newbie to come by
than complaining about the status or going away. If those who just
mastered the beginner's problem don't write the (better) doc, who else
is supposed to? Experts apparently cannot, they either don't see what
the actual obstacle was, or could try to explain better (more verbose?)
yet need not get understood better by those who had a problem with the
current status.
I understand that you _are_ serious about learning and just had a bad
start with Lua, probably mostly caused by the operating system you are
running (UNIX users usually just have their package manager install Lua
and start using it one minute later, just as you thought would only be
possible with Python). So you may want to look at Eric Raymond's "How
to become a hacker" at http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
My frustration level is considerably lower now that I don't spend
endless amounts of time going over documentation trying to gleam some
knowledge that will allow me to begin learning how to program. It may
have been a bit ambitious for me to expect this language to be a good
starting point.
Please make sure that you can tell the difference between the language
and a tool for the language (the interpreter). What you had trouble
with was not at all the Lua language, but getting an interpreter to run
on your system. Other responses explained that this is either done by
admins, or packagers, or that the interpreter comes as part of an
application. It's not Lua's fault that your operating system lacks a
decent package manager. But asking nicely would have led you quickly to
the LuaBinaries project, which seems to be what you needed.
Now kind of let us return to the Lua topic: Do you -- the ML
participants -- see a benefit in a Lua edition of the thinkCS book?
http://openbookproject.net/thinkCSpy/index.xhtml
Or are the other existing and often referenced books considered
appropriate enough for total newbies? I gladly admit that the blue PiL
is fun to read, totally worth buying as soon as one has to do with Lua
(regardless how much contact one has), yet it's not at all "simplistic"
-- quite the contrary, both newbies and seasoned programmers gain a lot
from reading and rereading(!) that excellent book. And on top (I hope)
the project and the authors receive a little money from our purchasing
that book.
OTOH did I try to translate the thinkCSpy book into the German language
quite a few years ago, and had "communication issues" back then. The
maintainer pointed me to another person who was said to already work on
this task, while this person had some funny ideas (wanted to translate
the HTML version which gets generated from the LaTeX source, instead of
translating the source and have all possible output formats generated
from it) and then quickly went silent for months, so my contribution
fell asleep (did actually not start at all, and I turned to other
languages after "having seen Python" ...).
virtually yours
Gerhard Sittig
