Meta-discussion (was Re: Bookworm Adventures Postmortem)

[Bret Victor <bret@...>]

Mike Pall <mikelu-0703 <at> mike.de> writes:

> The sociodynamics of computer language communities are very
> complex. There are several ways to trigger massive flamewars.
> Cross-language comparisons are good starters. Slander, libel
> and FUD are classic instruments.

Not to add to the noise, but if anyone here is interested in
the sociodynamics of online communities, check out Clay Shirky's
essays, particularly "A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy":

  http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html

Shirky quotes a psychologist named W.R. Bion who claims that any 
group, with insufficient moderation, devolves into three basic
patterns:

1. Salacious talk, or flirting.  This is not an issue on the Lua
list, but probably only because of a certain lopsided ratio.

2. Vilification of external enemies.  "Perl sucks!  Microsoft
sucks!  People who change Lua to JavaScript's syntax suck!  Ha-ha!"

3. Veneration of "religious" icons that are beyond criticism.  
When a newcomer violates a sacred tenet, flamewars are triggered.
"The language designers haven't done their homework."  "How DARE
you question Almighty Roberto?"  Or perhaps: "Get rid of the colon
syntax for method calls!"  "How dare you question the Almighty Colon?"

The purpose of group structures -- rules, moderation, authority --
is to keep the discussion on target, and avoid falling into the
unproductive patterns above.

The Lua list is actually a remarkably well-behaved little group.
I sometimes wonder if it's because we've cohered around pattern #3.
Everyone here really likes Lua, and dissenting voices don't come
in to break up the peace very often.