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- Subject: Re: Justify introducing Lua at my workplace?
- From: Irayo <irayo.lt@...>
- Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:15:28 -0600
Don Hopkins wrote:
@Don: your theory is fine for US people, but lack of love for Lisp is
also observed in non-English speaking places. I learned quite
recently that the word "lisp" also had another meaning than "nail
clippings in oatmeal".
My guess would rather be that Lisp doesn't encourage common idioms
and development approaches across people and teams, which makes it
- get into code you didn't develop
- work with more than a couple of teammates
- find a library that addresses your problem
- if you have several problems and find a lib to address each of
them, get those libs to work together despite their incompatible
That, and Lisp took waaaay too long to acknowledge its platforms. It
pretended to be OS independent, which meant many non-standard,
non-compatible ways to interface with OSes, and therefore, plenty of
platform issues as soon as you wanted to port or deploy a non-trivial
solution. As written somewhere by Paul Graham, "Unix has won, get
used to it".
Now that's some spot-on criticism of Lisp, much better than the "too
many parenthesis" excuse that gets thrown around by linguistic
homophobes suffering from cognitive dissonance.
I'm still waiting to hear somebody claim that they refuse to use XML
and HTML because they have too many parenthesis (angled brackets).
Or for somebody who hates Lisp's parenthesis but tolerates XML and
HTML to explain why <foo>bar</foo> is easier to read than (foo bar).
Perl and C++ have way too much punctuation in general, and Ruby made a
cargo cult design mistake in imitating Perl syntax.
I agree with Guido van Rossum's comment on Ruby: "I find Ruby's syntax
grating (too many sigils)".
Wow, in what language does lisp mean nail clippings in oatmeal, and
where can I get some of that stuff? It sounds delicious!
"Using these toolkits is like trying to make a bookshelf out of mashed
potatoes." -- Jamie Zawinski, on X-Windows toolkits.
I would like to point out that Lisp has nothing to do with the current
discussion, or in fact this list. I'd also like to point out that some
people like BASIC, others don't. It's a matter of opinion. You can't
try to force your opinion over someone else's opinion and pretend you've
won an argument.
On topic, what will happen to the in-house language and code for it when
the current employees of your company leave? You will have to train new
programmers to use the in-house language. Either way you're eventually
going to have to train someone, so why not make the switch to Lua now
and make it easier to learn for the new people later (who, in fact, may
already know it)?
In addition, Lua is very well-written and has very few bugs, and those
that are found are very quickly patched. It is well maintained, and you
can find advice and help very easily (consider this list, for instance,
or the wiki or PIL books).