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On Dec 1, 2012, at 4:49 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

> This "debate" has been going on since there *were* programming
> languages. Logo, BASIC and now Scratch were specifically designed to
> get youngsters into programming. *None* of the "kids' programming
> languages" was *ever* suitable for professional software engineering.
> Python, Lua, Visual Basic and most other languages are.

Smalltalk doesn't count?

BASIC wasn't created for kids fwiw, and a lot of its surface awfulness is fallout from needing to support teletypes. I've often wondered: knowing what we know today, what kind of programming environment would you create on a (say) 16kB RAM/16kB ROM 6502 with a memory-mapped text screen? The most frequent answer seems to be "COMAL" if you want ideas.