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David Kastrup wrote:
> Rob Kendrick <> writes:
>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:34:54 +0800
>> pan shizhu <pan.shizhu@> wrote:
>>> IMO python is by far the better language for "first programming
>>> language" than Lua.
>> If you're going to make an audacious assertion, please back it up with
>> justification :)
> Justification changes the syntax.
As does any form of refactoring - Python is very poor for that because 
its whitespace issues.

I think Python, although powerful, is not a good language to use, the 
number of times I've wasted time because of the whitespace indentation 
issues just make it a none-starter.

Does anyone on this list know folks that teach CS or related topics - 
perhaps they'd have some useful feedback on which things the "average" 
(whatever that is) person struggles with when learning a language. Then 
from that you could make suitable choices for a first language. Python 
would not be my choice as a first language.

The whitespace is NOT an issue, It's a feature... As a fairly new programmer
I have to say that the forced whitespace in Python has helped me more than
anything else... 
and languages without the forced whitespace, Or at least the ability to use
whitespace, Confuse me more than anything else.... 

Python, especially the forced whitespace, teaches new programmers good
programming habits and how to write nice, CLEAN, code. 
And if you don't at least understand this then you obviously don't know
anything about python... And I suggest you *import this*.
   * /The Zen of Python/
   * "Beautiful is better than ugly.
    Explicit is better than implicit.
    Simple is better than complex.
    Complex is better than complicated.
    Flat is better than nested.
    Sparse is better than dense.
    Readability counts.
    Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
    Although practicality beats purity.
    Errors should never pass silently.
    Unless explicitly silenced.
    In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
    There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
    Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
    Now is better than never.
    Although never is often better than *right* now.
    If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
    If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
    Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!"*

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