Re: Degenerative discussions (maybe he's right?)

[Stephen Kellett <lua@...>]

Tim Kelly wrote:
> Stephen continues to distort what I am saying.  His "assumptions" about me are 
>patently false

I didn't make any assumptions about you. I made them about the ideas and 
concepts being discussed. You have a comprehension problem. They are two 
completely different things.

But, even assuming your statement is true why do you continue to fail to 
correct my assumptions. That would be the logical thing to do.

I've spent the day with 3 kids, age 4, 7, 8. Wonderful. No hidden 
agendas, no ego too large to receive constructive criticism, large 
fluffly crocodiles, Thomas the Tank Engine, Lightning McQueen racing 
cars, etc. Very noisy. Tiring. Great fun.

I resolved earlier today that if you responded with corrections to any 
assumptions (so that we could continue the discussion) or that if you 
responded with answers as to why several multi-million dollar plays in 3 
global multi-billion dollar markets are not evidence of Lua's maturity 
then I would also engage with you. That would be a constructive discussion.

I also resolved that if you failed to do the above, or if you attempted 
to further distort my position or impune my motives I would abandon this 
thread.

You Sir, have demonstrated that you cannot recognise someone genuinely 
interested in understanding your problem and why you cannot understand 
the value proposition present. If we got to the bottom of that we could 
possibly inform you enough to make a valid decision, even if that 
decision meant you did not choose Lua. You have failed on more counts 
than I have ever encountered before in a newsgroup/list discussion to do 
this.

You (and everyone else) will be greatly served by reading the following 
book on mass market marketing of software. Although that is not what you 
are engaged in, the book contains excellent insight (far better and more 
lucidly explained than I have seen elsewhere) into what drives the 
various types of people that purchase software (that doesn't just mean 
consumers, it means business types too). When you understand this, you 
understand what is driving your client's perceived need for a roadmap. 
From there, if you have the nous to assimilate what has been 
communicated to you by, I guess, 20 or 30 people now, in this thread you 
will be able to completely put their needs at ease.

Geoffrey A Moore book "Inside the Tornado".
ISBN-13 978-0-08-07458-3
ISBN-10 0-06-074581-9

There is a partner book to this, by the same author, "Crossing the 
Chasm." This is also highly recommended and discusses the period before 
"Inside the Tornado". Its very interesting reading, but I didn't get the 
same "wow that really explains a lot" insight from it that Inside the 
Tornado provided.

I've never met you, never read a thing about you anywhere. Your business 
 I have never heard of and I doubt is a competitor. I doubt very much 
we will ever meet. I have no reason to dislike you or show you any 
animosity. All I have done is attack the ideas your proposed that I 
think are not valid. Your response has been to refuse to engage, refuse 
to correct any incorrect assumptions on my part (but fume in indignation 
at me supposedly misrepresenting you) and to attack me and impune my 
motives. Frankly, its a poor show.

Regardless of what you write now, someone else can take up the mantle. 
This newsgroup is not for personal bickering (*), but discussing the 
merits and demerits of Lua related ideas and proposals, which I have 
been doggedly trying to get you to do but which you have steadfastly, in 
the last two posts and one email that you have made public, tried to 
turn into a flame war.

Its clear other people got sick of this a while ago, as did I, but I 
thought I should try harder. The visit to see the kids fixed that. Life 
is too short to deal with people that don't listen and won't listen.

Thank Budda that is over.

Stephen