Re: Degenerative discussions (maybe he's right?)

[Stephen Kellett <lua@...>]

Asko Kauppi wrote:
> I dare re-enter this realm, since the challenge it places on the list is 
> - how to deal with commercial establishments, and "rules". If we fail to 
> please Kelly's needs, maybe there's something to be looked into the 
> mirror, too. I think such a discussion never took place earlier on the 
> list.

Tim's needs were misplaced. He wanted things that
a) Were not available.
b) He didn't need, if only he would educate his customers as to "why".

Eric Tetz's two posts in this thread sum the situation up very nicely.

From email to myself and Roberto (principally to tell me what he 
thought of me), Tim also thinks Lua is a business and that past 
acheivements by Lua should be discounted as they are no guarantee of 
future performance (presumably Tim's own track record should be 
discounted by his own customers?).

Is Lua a business?

Commercial establishments know how to deal with this. That is witnessed 
by two dominant vendors in two multi billion dollar markets (graphics 
and gaming) plus various space program people using Lua. People take 
great care over what goes into a satellite, and Lua is in some 
satellites. When people like these make multi-billion dollar bets on 
their future business using your product you know you are doing 
something right.

He also seems rather taken with the roadmap idea and cites PHP and Perl 
as projects where he can get his answers. I hope he takes the time to 
look at the progress of Perl 6, started in June 2002. The last entry on 
the Perl 6 progress log is Feb 2006 (1 year, 10 months ago). They 
shipped Perl 5.3 last week (or two). I'm glad I didn't bet any business 
plans on the progress of Perl 6 (and yes, we did look at Perl 6 a few 
years ago. We walked away, marked down as come back in a few years time, 
which we did yesterday and its still not ready).

I think the fundamental problem was his approach and unwillingness to 
accept answers that didn't fit his idea of a valid answer. The fact that 
he received the same answer in various forms from multiple sources did 
not sway him one iota.

I don't think any time needs to be spent addressing his needs - he 
didn't have any genuine needs that haven't been covered by various 
posters on this thread.

Stephen