Re: We need a forum!

[Philippe Lhoste <PhiLho@...>]

Michael Cumming wrote:
> Interesting discussion so far.  I did not think there would be so many mail list holdovers :)  In reality, mailing lists are in decline.  This is the last list that I belong to.  All others have finally seen the light and gone to a bulletin board format.  They offer huge advantages that cannot be ignored.

I am not a mailing list holdover or a forum naysayer, I used forums, and 
will continue to use them. I just said it is redundant with mailing 
list, and I prefer the later, at least for subjects I am really involved in.

I am a bit surprised by some of your advantages.

> Your email address are not in full view.

OK but it is only a problem when the archives can been seen on the Net. 
I doubt spammers will download mail archives to gather e-mail addresses 
(but who know). And most Web interface to mail archives hide the full 
address, now. Or should be.

> No cut and paste for subjects, just click reply.

Uh? What e-mail client are you using? I had just to hit reply on your 
message. I used to copy/paste subjects when I read my messages on a 
webmail and answered on another, because the first one gathered various 
POP3 servers but wasn't able to change reply address. Fortunately, it is 
now a thing of the past.

> PM for directly speaking with other users.

PM?

> No back and forth through a 200 line text email trying to follow the topic your are interested.

Mmm? Forum messages are limited in length? It can be annoying in some cases.

> Subject areas that can be subscriped to so you get every message without even having to check.

My client get every message and check them automatically...
If there is a thread I am not interested in, I can delete these messages 
without even having to read them...

> Very easy to search, no thread disconnect because of a spelling/cut/paste error in the subject line.

Again this cut/paste thingy? Strange.

> When you come back to the forum and logon you can simply click view all new posts since last visit. 

New messages are bold in Mozilla, and folder list display the number of 
new messages in each folder.

> File attachments.

Wow. I have that too!

> Message formating which makes including code much easier and more readable.

Indeed, HTML e-mail is frowned upon in most mailing lists, because it is 
bloated and prone to security risks.

> No maintenance like a wiki.

I don't know if a Wiki need much maintenance, as long as users behave.

> You can reference valuable threads with an url making it easy to point others in the right direction.

Can do that with Web interface to archives, but of course, you have to 
search it first, indeed. Now that such links can be broken if the forum 
reorganizes its messages (or just upgrade)...

> etc etc etc.

More, more! :-)

> I have seen other lists debate this, and once the forum came along, the naysayers were no longer naysaying.  

Well, if they have no other choice :-)

> But, the real decision must come the Lua team - to whom I am very greatful for putting together such a great language and community.  I was more wondering if the decision to not do a forum was a cost/technical reason and not what format is superior (that's obvious!)....

Frankly, I would be annoyed to have to check a forum every day to see 
new messages. I have done it, while I had an analog modem, and it was 
soooo slooow, either because of my modem or because the server/forum was 
slow too. Probably both...

It is a bit like Microsoft way of thinking, making applications that 
suppose you have permament, fast connction to Internet. Well, not 
everybody yet...

Again, forums are useful, eg. I can set up one on my personal site since 
server supports PHP, and it would be easier than setting a mailing list, 
and better adapted to support several little programs, with probably low 
traffic. Users won't have to subscribe to several ML, they can check 
occasionally if there is new messages, perhaps they can post without 
subscribing, which is convenient and fast, etc.

But I really believe that for a program like Lua (or SciTE/Scintilla), 
well targeted, with quite a good amount of messages, and mostly 
dedicated users, ML is more useful.

Of course, this, like subjects like what is the best text editor/e-mail 
client/Usenet reader/etc., can/will lead to endless debate of users 
firmly rooted on their preferences.

A good suggestion was to use Gmane to read and post to the mailing list, 
it may be near of your wish.

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Philippe Lhoste (Paris -- France)
Professional programmer and amateur artist
http://Phi.Lho.free.fr
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