Re: Proposal: Proposals are the wrong approach [prose and long]

[Steve Litt <slitt@...>]

On Sat, 3 May 2014 12:27:15 -0700
Coroutines <coroutines@gmail.com> wrote:

> IMO, more than half this list is made up of extremely biased and
> discouraging 'regulars', who push down any idea that threatens their
> view of what Lua should be -- without reading the full proposal and
> considering its viability within the stated constraints and use cases.

Please allow me to speak as one of the extremely biased and
discouraging 'regulars' who push down any idea that threatens their
view of what Lua should be ...

A computer language is a very valuable resource. A computer language
that actually works consistently is even more valuable. A simple
computer language upon which you can build almost anything is
priceless. Notice the word "simple" in the preceding sentence.

Personally, I think the Lua team has done a pretty good job, so far, in
making a language with the syntax and features you need to get things
done, and yet keep it a simple language. To me, if somebody wants a
change to the language, they need to support that change with
overwhelming evidence of value and codability, and present evidence
that the change has minimal risk of introducing other problems.
Otherwise, I'd personally prefer the language be left alone.

A lot of the Lua-l proposals are for syntactic sugar. Well, as an
extremely biased and discouraging regular, I say "bah humbug" to
syntactic sugar. Every language has constructs that are a little wordy,
but nothing that can't be learned in ten minutes. Modern
zen-coding editors make instant work out of wordy constructs. Syntactic
sugar, my aunt's hat!

Hey, this is Lua. You can build almost any functionality with a few
lines of Lua. A couple versions ago I lamented the lack of a continue
statement in loops, and was turned down. No big deal: It took me one
hour to code up a special table that did everything continue statements
do and a lot more. It's Lua: If it doesn't have something, you can make
it. And if you publicize it, others can use it. And your special
construct don't clutter up the code of those who don't want it.

Lua-l is the *only* language list I've seen where people keep
suggesting changes to the language. C, Python, Ruby, they just learn
the language and code. People are satisfied with Perl, for gosh sakes.
If people see room for improvement in a language, they write a library
or make some documentation. I've never quite understood why people keep
trying to make minor changes to Lua, an exquisitely simple and
effective language. 

Of course, this is just my opinion. But, judging from your first
sentence, I'm in the majority :-)

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance