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On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 18:00:12 -0300
"Andre Carregal" <> wrote:

> > Zed A. Shaw wrote:
> > What you guys seriously need is something that's more than a
> > list of the components Kepler has.  That's fine, now i can
> > read what each thing does, but the point of Kepler is that
> > you've pulled these together to create something better.
> Well, if you consider that it now offers an integrated installer for Windows
> users and the aforementioned simpler Unix setup, this is arguably something
> better than a bunch of separated modules, no?
> While assembling modules and environments may seem trivial for some of the
> readers here, this is not so true for the vast majority of users who try
> Kepler not having had any contact with Lua before.

I think you missed the point slightly.  I think the new installer is fantastic compared with the last way of figuring it out for myself.  But, *after* the "./configure; make;" I'm pretty lost as to what I do next to actually get a site up and running.
> > I really seriously think you need to have:
> >
> > * Getting Started -- From nothing to "hello world".
> > * Your First Application -- Building something non-trivial with Kepler.
> > * Deployment Guide -- One for win32 and Unix.
> No questions about that. Documentation is our biggest concern now. This
> release has advanced things a bit, but not much indeed.

I'll definitely help, but I need the information too.  Kind of a chicken-and-eggs thing.

> > If there was just these three documents I could then get on
> > my way to exploring all the remaining components. The only
> > remaining thing is generating some kind of automated source
> > documentation similar to Doxygen.
> Not sure where this fits in the equation, but there will be LuaDoc to the
> rescue someday in the near future.

That'd be great, but make it available on the site.  What I did with Mongrel was integrate it into my "site build" process.  I use a site generator that produces the whole Mongrel site, builds an rcov report, and produces the RDoc for the site.  I just run one command and then go drink some coffee for about 20 minutes while it builds and rsyncs the whole site.

Let me know if you're interested in the tools I use.  They're ruby centric but you could easily find Lua alternatives.

> > And hell, if I could figure Kepler out again I'd write the
> > above documents.  But I'm so lost after "./configure; make"
> > that I can't go anywhere.
> Helping writing and revising documentation is certainly a really welcome
> thing. If someone wants to join the adventure we have a separate list with
> more than 100 subscribers. Not much compared to other platforms around, but
> a good start for something without docs...

I will totally hook you up.  I'll need help getting things off the ground though, so maybe shoot me a "making your first kepler project on Unix" e-mail offline and I'll translate it into something more extensive.

I'll put it on my blog to start, and then we can chat about more docs.

> > Anyway, advice from your friendly Ruby insider.
> As I said, thanks for the advice, but please keep in mind that even Ruby
> took some time to get to 1.0 too. And no, I'm not comparing Ruby with Kepler
> here, just the number of years involved... :o)

I'd say you can skip a lot of the learning process by just copying them.  I had Mongrel up and running with tons of documentation and many people self-sufficient in about 3 months.  It all comes down to documentation.  If people have no way to bootstrap themselves then they pass it by in favor of the projects that have samples, documentation, api docs, etc.  Most of this is pretty easy to generate, and there's folks like me who'll help.

But, you gotta do some initial work by at least writing a step-by-step doc or two.

Anyway, e-mail me offline and I'll work something up.

Zed A. Shaw, MUDCRAP-CE Master Black Belt Sifu -- The Mongrel Book -- Come get help.